JuneFall

Palestinians fighting for their survival are not reactionary

If you think that then you aren't a Marxist. Of course within Gazan society and Hamas you have reactionaries and reactionary actions. Are all? No. Plenty of groups that are or were active in Gaza aren't reactionary. Read Marx's https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/

Taking hostages is fine, and wtf are you supposed to do if you take parents hostage? Just leave the children there in the middle of a war zone alone?

Israel is small. You can leave the children and the videos of the kids show that the children are not protected, they are hit with sticks and batons and insulted as Jews. Besides that, yes. Those kids are not Tsarist kids. Save your gray propaganda for good goals. You can also find a video in which parents are killed and a child is taken. Or children that are killed. For the outcry that a targeted and thus killed journalist by IDF forces took this ignores that there is a strategic level of Hamas which obviously encouraged what happens, as it is wide spread and communicated via established Hamas video channels and thus shown, it also got an individual vengeance and revenge component.

The actions of Hamas do show their regressive reactionary nature and that the solidarity for socialist groups in Israel is not existent within them. What we know now, too, is also that it doesn't seem to have been a unified operation, meaning that the PFLP and other Marxist groups within Gaza are not really having impact on the strategic operations or are shut out completely.

This means that critical solidarity ought to be critical. If you do a large incursion like that you really argue that shooting young ravers and killing some after taking them hostage, is the best use of your short lived incursion? In any case I have yet to have seen text based Marxist reasoning which isn't vibes based or goes beyond "national liberation justifies any violence".

What is the aim here is to say any person - which includes plenty of Israeli Arabs (at least 20% of the population), also some who were at the rave - outside of Gaza and West Jordan is a legitimate aim to be killed, tortured, (sexually) assaulted, kidnapped. The terror of the guillotine and the committee for hygiene was more targeted and more in line with progressive politics than that. The "no excuse for the terror" doesn't mean it is arbitrary terror, it is focused on revolutionary goals. They also could've had Marxist and pre Marxist reasoning. The operation in Palestina and Israel was not one of national liberation with a class based analysis, but one in which there are people assigned as oppressing colonialists (everyone at the rave i.e. who wasn't coming from Gaza).

The goal of course is to weaken Israel's tourism industry, to unify power within Gaza, to divide Israel and Saudi Arabia and have hostages to do prisoner swaps. Though it is somewhat unlikely that this nearly 60 year old practice will work as before with the current right wing government in Israel and the lack of current good will. It did strengthen unity in Israel.

This is a stance that would mean that any person buying US/UK/French/Iranian/Turkish/South Korean/Philipine/Maroccon/Brazilian/Mexican products deserves to die.

It is a moralistic idealist claim, not a Marxist one.

Abducting kids is not okay, hitting them is not okay, sexual violence is not okay, targeting tourists at a rave is not okay.

Is there any evidence that Hamas have been committing sexual violence?

Yes. Even inside of Gaza i.e. against some people deemed gay, some "traitors". Within torture it is mostly not complementary with sexual violence. So within this conflict there will be some cases, the question will be if it is widespread policy (unlikely), if it is "lack of oversight+patriarchy+spaces without law+antisemitism", etc.

However in any case the limit for certain types of violence and certain targets of violence is important. During the last day we did see that plenty on this site aren't really differentiating or equating everyone in Israel as guilty and therefore fine to be killed (without making clear if they mean targeted, or as collateral damage i.e. car bombings that kill civilians in front of military bases).

The line of the ANC's MK was different in that regard that not all violence and all targets were seen as acceptable or justified. So the site's line is more regressive than feminist Marxists ought to be.

*Edit: Hamas did shit the bed in this operation. *

2/3 In 1985, Canada initiated an independent investigation and established The Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals in Canada (the Deschênes Commission). None of the members of the Division "Galicia" who had settled in Canada were found guilty of committing war crimes.

I knew they would use the commission which did actively walk back from the Nuremberg decision - based on a ton of evidence - to declare the (Waffen-)SS a criminal organization due to its part in the Holocaust and Shoa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palikrowy_massacre

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta-Pieniacka-Massaker

To name just two.

The commission was a really fucked up thing, too. It didn't look into Nuremberg archives, didn't acknowledge scholarly work, it didn't ask neither Eastern Europe nor the Soviet Union for information or access to archives.

After the commission ended more empirical scholarly work was done which also strengthened the link between Galicia members (and sometimes even before they joined that unit) to war crimes and worse.

CW

Canada did not even sentence people when there were 6-19 eye witnesses of their participation in the Shoa - without threat to their lives. Don't give a fuck about the commission.

He joined in 1941-1943 (one source said with 16, another said the volunteer unit was founded afterwards), there is quite a lot of evidence that Ukrainian volunteer troops in that time did partake in the Shoa, in "anti-partisan" actions and also genocides against polish and others.

Nationalists did try to diminish those facts, or did blame other units.

Lenin worked with Germany and took resources from them. Marx raised money for the Ottomans. Yes, it in fact does mean opposing your own empire by supporting its opponents (and getting supported by its opponents, in Lenin's case) and sabotaging your own empire.

The question is who you support though, and revolutionary socialists, including Lenin, didn't give money to the Tsar, Metternich, or George V. They sought out different avenues. Supporting revolutionary groups, articles, only in limited cases sabotages, some criminal acts which disturbed the military supply chains and agitation within the military.

This is a far cry from thinking it is enough to be public about critical support of governments online. The latter would be the equivalent of :vote: for anti-imperialists. The former a principled response that actually figures out what the critical means.

revolutionary defeatism means critically supporting the opponents of your own side

Lenin didn't meant that the SPD has to gather money to send to the Tsarist army though.

It isn't quite what you wrote, but when I was in Cape Town doing couch surfing a white couple with a large farm house did host me. The husband who didn't seem to work except for telling people to better manage the farm and get his rental income was discussing politics with me. He did inherit the farm and the company from his father during the transition period of South Africa. Himself he did label as anarchist, since he is against people telling others how to live their lives. This included his wife being angry when he was interested in other women. Myself he labeled as being authoritarian - which I wasn't back then. Since I was in favour of collective action, collective bargaining, solidarity and (but that I did say only later) reparations - or more than reparations - and taxing people.

I wish such "libertarian" colonists would be lumped together with Fascists as often as you are lumped together with Tankies. However liberals are quick at ignoring his economic power and looking at his social values instead of what power he does actually use (like supporting the Freedom Front Plus with donations).

I did not have that on my bingo card for this year.

Hexbear doesn't even argue for the death penalty for Puyi, who allied with Nazi Germany, but argue for rehabilitation and education, as to follow critically Mao Zedong thought. 🧹