The US primaries and the general election are two different things. Voting uncommitted in the primary expresses support for the Palestinian plight and does not give Republicans any ground.
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
That being said, anyone who calls for an uncommitted or third-party vote in the general election i will personally kick in the gender neutral balls (in Minecraft).
That's not the message though, so this is disingenuous or misleading. We all 98% agree the US should tell Israel to quit their shit and not give them more funds or weapons, and that it's disappointing Biden and 90% of the US political establishment have supported this. However, what people are told is we should not vote for Biden, and vote third party or not vote, to 'send the Democrats a message'. Enough people doing that would have the predictable result of getting Trump elected, so yeah, it's a decent question why people would suggest that when a Trump admin would surely be worse on the Palestine issue.
I agree with this and it's what I'm afraid of. I totally support voting in the primary as you wish, even just to send a message (I support voting how you wish in all cases). But in this case using primary voting to send a dissatisfied message about the Democratic candidate has me worried it will instead send a wider message (or mass media will push this message) that the US populace feels Biden is unpopular compared to Trump.
Which is absolutely not the case with the vast majority of people voting against Biden in the primary. But that kind of message (accidental or intentional) can do real harm to prevent a literal fascist takeover in November. This is the totality of my concern and if we weren't facing down the potential end of democracy in the US, I'd give a lot less shits about potentially torpedoing Biden's chances. And I feel a lot of the hate against Biden has galvanized right around the time the primary season started which seems convenient for Trump.
It’s almost like sending bombs to kill innocent children might be one of those wedge issues
you misunderstand the us primary election process.
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
it’s so depressing dude. children and families are dying and somehow when a group of people get together to try to make change in a safe way they get accused of supporting MAGA.
i’m so blackpilled with how quickly this community takes to knee-jerk name calling and misinformation.
Further, they don't see that their unhinged behavior is literally being just like the Trump cult and demanding total submission to Trump.
Demanding total submission to the whims of Biden isn't any better. Cool guys, you've just proved you're just as out of touch and following talking points as Trump idiots do. Good job on making yourself look like a thoughtless idiot, real winner behavior there.
eh in the face of name calling and bad faith plastering of the label “fascist” i’m not going to do the same
i do get what you are saying! but i’m gonna try to be the better woman and firmly encourage informed self-interrogation when this happens, rather than falling back to good old comparison with the enemy.
You're a better person than me, hats off to ya.
thanks buddie 😭
I mean, try and keep in mind that lemmy isn't a monolith.
As many brow-beaters as there are trying to force you into voting against your own interests for yet another corporate Democrat (oh but this one is less against your own interests than that other guy), there are also people trying to express nuance and having a real conversation.
Its clear to me leftists and progressives need their own party. It can and should caucus with Democrats, but it needs to have its own, actually democratic, primary system independent from whatever the-fuck-is-this-bull-shit thing the Democrats call a primary. No I don't think any of the existing parties are sufficient (DSA or greens).
I put a post up a few minutes ago advocating for this. I think it could find its start in the upper-midwest, be focused on inclusivity and social democracy, and still caucus with Democrats. But there is no power in blue-no-matter-who. In many ways, its blue-no-matter-who that has delivered us a burgeoning neofacist movement, because we're forced to vote for shitty corporate Democrats uncritically. We need to abandon the white-liberalism of the NYT, NPR, Atlantic, and WaPo crowd. Its not working, It never worked. Enlightened mediocrity has only made things worse for all of us. This is probably my last election as a registered Democrat. I switched from independent to Democrat to support Bernie, and have put in several thousand hours since 2015 organizing and fundraising for various Democratic candidates or leftist projects. The Democrats turned out to be a bad investment of that time, and I sometimes wonder if Bernie thinks the same thing.
please google “uncommitted movement”; virtually every assertion you make here is false.
I link to search engines all the time am I a bot?
Or am I trying to show you multiple sources so that you can judge and make your own decisions?
Are you not intelligent enough to make your own decisions?
Do you need them spoonfed to you?
Personally, I thought you were an adult, but this conversation is proving otherwise.
Yeah because people on totally diffetent servers are absolutely the same person.
Like, it was a specious accusation on reddit, but it at least made sense since we were all on one centralized site.
This has devolved straight into conspiracy theory.
How is that any better than MAGA conspiracy theory?
And you're still in a sad conspiracy hole where your fear has eaten your rationality and reason. I'm sorry you are suffering.
are you okay
Clearly they are not. It seems like a weak attempt to try to "catch" a commenter out as a bot driven by AI?
Once again, the idea that real people with real opinions that differ from theirs exist is an impossibility, and thus there must be a nefarious reason for them having this opinion. They're either a Republican, or a Russian, or a bot, or a or a or a...
It seems they have sunk to the level of where, since they feel they can no longer trust that things on the internet are real, have decided only things that fit their ideologies could be a reality, and anything otherwise leads them into frothing-at-the-mouth madness.
I understand that the internet is a scary place filled with misinformation but hot damn it's a bad coping mechanism to assume the worst of everyone you encounter who has a different hot take than you.
Beep boop fuck off
No, I sure don’t. Talking endless shit about Biden will affect more than the primary.
i agree! and so does the uncommitted movement. that’s why a third party or uncommitted vote will not be called after the primary. the shit talking will generally end as soon as the primaries are over, regardless of the outcome.
you seem to be here in good faith so i encourage you to look more into what the uncommitted movement is thinking. these aren’t stupid folks and they well understand the concerns which you bring up and are strategizing within that very framework. perhaps you will be led to interrogate assumptions you had previously made, perhaps not. :)
I find it pretty unlikely the one sided criticism of the Democratic Party and politicians will end after the primary, and you're ignoring that not everyone receiving these messages is on board with your theory. Oh, he's "genocide joe" only til the primary is done, then vote for him! And meanwhile you're going to continue strangely never saying anything critical or realistic about Trump and Republicans, right?
i agree, genocide joe is kind of a dumbass nickname.
and you’re wrong, watch: trump, if elected, will go fucking balls to the wall in “finishing” the genocide. trump is a genocidal freak and biden is only slightly better because democrats may have the opportunity to sway him.
so hopefully that teaches you to make assumptions lol
If you don't want to hear people shit-talking Biden then you need to either avoid politics altogether or stick to a filter bubble that doesn't tolerate such criticism.
Who said the issue was I don't want to hear it? I'm here discussing it. My point is that it's counterproductive, unfair, and likely to lead to worse outcomes for the US and the entire world. The #1 issue is "gEnOcIdE jOe" which is kind of ridiculous given that not just Biden but 90% of the US political establishment supported the same policies, AND we'll end up getting genocide Donald, who will throw away Ukraine, run his own genocide on Central Americans in the US, do the same but worse in Israel (Trump recently said Israel should "finish the job"). Hmm, but maybe some people prefer one of those things.
Seems pretty productive to me, we haven't even finished the primaries yet and the sudden drop in support has pushed Biden from "Humanitarian pause" to openly calling for a temporary ceasfire.
At this rate he might even call for a permanemt ceasefire and halt weapons shipments to Israel in time for the general election, but if we don't let the party know they need to change then they won't.
Seems like its long past time to stop supporting 90% of the political establishment, then.
Admitting that the American public is willing to support genocide out of fear that the wrong genocider might take power is the first step towards changing our political system to send war criminals to the hague instead of the white house.
And most people aren't saying you need to vote for Biden in the primary. They're talking about the general.
yes, for the love of all that is holy vote for biden in the general 🫠🙏🙏