this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
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[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Source for the quote? I tried searching for it but couldn’t really find anything.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The outgoing Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte asked the country's legal affairs ministry: "What can we say to make it look like Israel is not committing war crimes?"

The revelations have only recently come to light and were reported by NRC, the newspaper of record in the Netherlands. source

The memo was first reported by the NRC newspaper in the Netherlands.

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 1 points 2 weeks ago

Heb je een link zonder paywall? Ik was dat artikel al tegengekomen maar kon het niet lezen.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

I translated the NRC article. I could not find the quote. It seems to be a paraphrased quote from the contents of the leaked memo from the civil servants that wrote the letter to The Hague.

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I am a bit skeptical this actually happened. The infographic is from a known Russian interests troll and just gives a “trust me bro” source.

I could be proven wrong though.

If I was teaching a media literacy class I would include this infographic as a good example of something that looks like it might have a source but actually does not.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I googled the quote in the article (“What can we say to make it seem like Israel is not committing war crimes?”), which it doesn’t even attribute to Rutte, and I just found this article again.

Now don’t get me wrong, I fully believe that Rutte knows that Israel is committing war crimes and that he’s fully on their side regardless, but this article doesn’t prove the legitimacy of this quote at all. What’s more, if what the article states is 100% true, it at least demonstrates that attributing the quote to Rutte himself is misleading, since it is supposed to come from someone in his cabinet.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Google-Fu is an art. It’s in an anonymous letter a group of civil servants from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wrote to the Court of Appeal in The Hague:

“A request from the Ministry of General Affairs to the Legal Affairs Directorate at Foreign Affairs reads as follows,” NRC quoted from the officials’ letter: “What can we say so that it appears that Israel is not committing war crimes?” nltimes.nl

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Yeah okay cool, no need to be condescending when I already told you I found the damn NRC article. I, however, can’t access it and would like to read it in Dutch, or at the very least in a source a bit more trustworthy than Jacobin or not as no-name as nltimes.nl.

Also, like I said, this post frames it as if it’s a quote from Rutte. Your sources say it’s not. This shit is deliberately misleading.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Sorry, it was supposed to be funny. Here is an archived link to the article. I agree, it is misleading. But the letter to the Hague contains a paraphrased statement that conveys the sentiment in the leaked memo.

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 0 points 2 weeks ago

All good.

And yeah, it’s clear that Rutte’s cabinet is aware that Israel is bad but doesn’t want to acknowledge it, but this post is misinformation.

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I looked threw the link and don’t see anything that supports the infographic. If anything the article emphasizes how hesitant NL is to support Israel here.

I mean it’s close but it’s no source that can justify the infographic.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

“A request from the Ministry of General Affairs to the Legal Affairs Directorate at Foreign Affairs reads as follows,” NRC quoted from the officials’ letter: “What can we say so that it appears that Israel is not committing war crimes?” nltimes.nl

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I took the time to read through this new source. I think this proves the point that the quote is taken out of context. Most importantly it’s not from him. Secondly it’s from a department under his command. If we read the context we see that the quote should be understood as “what could we possibly say to it appears that Israel is no committing war crimes? It’s obvious that they are.” Here is the quote with the context.

The outgoing Dutch Prime Minister is sweeping politically unwelcome information about Israel, such as possible human rights violations, under the rug so as not to offend the United States and protect his prospects for his future job as NATO leader, NRC reports based on an anonymous letter a group of civil servants from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wrote to the Court of Appeal in The Hague. 

“A request from the Ministry of General Affairs to the Legal Affairs Directorate at Foreign Affairs reads as follows,” NRC quoted from the officials’ letter: “What can we say so that it appears that Israel is not committing war crimes?”

Rutte and his Ministers have spoken out about the war, which has cost the lives of around 24,000 Palestinians and 1,200 Israelis so far, multiple times, urging Israel to act within the international rule of law. The Netherlands has never called for a ceasefire, only sticking to appeals for “humanitarian pauses.”

The department’s not saying “please Mr USA what should I say?”. It’s saying “how can we possibly phrase this such that the USA will go along while at the same time not just lying”

I think the difference between the two is the difference between Russian interest level propaganda and geopolitical situations as they are. Aka the U.S. having a disproportionate influence worldwide.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I agree it was taken out of context. But, I disagree with the interpretation of “Russian interest level” propaganda. Unless the civil servants who wrote the letter to the Hague work for Russia. Purely speculative, but I don’t think it would be in Russia’s interests to stop the genocide in Gaza, it is clearly hurting the reputation of America and the West.