this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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They don’t have a brain really and kinda just float there. Do they even feel pain?

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[–] robotdna@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago (3 children)

After having kept jellyfish as pets (Atlantic bay nettles), I wouldn't really consider them to be vegetarian nor vegan. While similar to plants, seemed to have a greater sense of environmental awareness than my plants. Mine could sense light, have "off days", and interact with their environment. It's probably true that there's not much going on there due to the small amount of nerves that control everything, but even when mine would accidentally get caught on tank cleaning tools or get bumped around they'd react in a protective way and to me it's just similar enough to animalistic behavior that I'd not feel comfortable consuming them if I were vegan.

[–] _finger_@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Don’t most plants sense light and interact with their environment?

Tardigrades have been observed reacting defensively to danger, even offensively. I know they’re not plants, but do they feel pain? What about brine shrimp?

Jellyfish are super weird because they really blur the lines between plant/animal. It’s a really interesting question to ask honestly.

[–] simplecyphers@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

So is this theory of veganism to not cause pain to an animal? If so what about ethically sourced meat. Like bullet to the head/decapitation. Most of those creatures feel nothing, they just end.

Or is it to not eat anything that comes from the an organism from the Animalia kingdom because harming animals is immoral?

After proofreading, these sound more aggressive/argumentative than i had intended but they get the point across.

[–] Tywele@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Veganism means to reduce the suffering and exploitation of animals as much as practically possible.

There is nothing ethical about killing a living being that doesn't want to die.

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[–] FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Jellyfish eat animals and animal byproducts, so no, they are not vegan.

Jokes aside, often vegans follow dietary restrictions for reasons other than an ethical or moral belief against causing pain. Many vegans don't even eat honey, so I imagine jellyfish is pretty safely in non-vegan territory.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Are carnivores plants vegan? Genuinely curious, never looked into it.

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[–] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] LufyCZ@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Can't agree fully.

My mother has a hive in the garden. The bees pollinate our garden, live lives as nice as bee's lives can be and, at the end of the year, we take some of their honey and replace it with sugar, which the bees don't care about.

It's a win-win, nobody is hurt, nobody is taken advatage of.

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[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (3 children)

At this time it is impossible to know if they feel pain. They're a living creature.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Plants are also living creatures, but don't tell the Vegans.

[–] FermatsLastAccount@kbin.social 73 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you want to minimize plant death, going vegan is still the right move.

Most of the crops we grow go to feeding animals that people eat.

[–] LegendOfZelda@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

This is definitely the best take on veganism.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I don't really care about minimizing plant death. I'm not Vegan or Vegetarian, nor will I be in the future. I just made a joke.

[–] jeffw@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (6 children)

They told me Lemmy would be more leftist, why am I still seeing 0 IQ vegan jokes

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[–] remotelove@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We may be able to tell if they are stressed, which could be related to pain, depending on your viewpoint.

Here is a recent study of audible reactions plant can have to stress: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(23)00262-3

Do plants react to stress and harmful situations like infestation? Absolutely. Do they actually feel pain as we understand it? Probably not since they lack a nervous system.

This boils down to the question: What is pain?

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[–] protist@mander.xyz 40 points 1 year ago (10 children)

No Brain? For Jellyfish, No Problem

“I think sometimes people use its lack of a brain to treat a jellyfish in ways we wouldn’t treat another animal,” Helm says. “There are robots in South Korea that drag around the bay and suck in jellyfish and shred them alive. I’m a biologist and sometimes sacrifice animals, but I try to be humane about it. We don’t know what they are feeling, but they certainly have aversion to things that cause them harm; try to snip a tentacle and they will swim away very vigorously. Sure, they don’t have brains, but I don’t think that is an excuse to put them through a blender.”

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[–] vsg@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

They are animals, so no.

[–] pinwurm@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (12 children)

It depends on the definition of Veganism.

There’s is a popular school of thought that the diet‘s sole purpose to reduce suffering. If a living thing has no central nervous system (or brain), it has no thoughts and cannot experience pain or harm. It’s not much different than a fruit or vegetable. I know vegans that make exceptions for oysters - for example.

Others schools of thought are about avoiding animal products altogether, it doesn’t matter if it suffers or not - there’s no way to know. Therefore, it’s immoral to eat them if you can knowingly choose an alternative.

[–] Tywele@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Veganism is not only a diet. It's an ethical stance and lifestyle.

Edit: clarifications

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[–] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I believe that it is not, since scientifically it is an animal. However, some vegetarians (not vegans) will eat fish or certain animal products.

[–] csm10495@sh.itjust.works 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I thought that people who would eat fish but not other animals were pescatarians.

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[–] raltoid@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

They're animals, so no.

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Nope. Animal product. Would be ok for pescatarians, however.

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[–] Archpawn@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (10 children)

By a strict definition, no. But most vegans don't really care about scientific classification. Personally I don't think they're sentient and think it's fine.

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[–] popemichael@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of Jelly fish are immortal? Just leave a few cells and wait for it to come back to life. Death-free food for the win

[–] keenanpepper@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

I mean, milk could also easily be death-free, but it's not vegan. It's also not suffering-free. So this suggestion kind of misses the point.

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've known people who chose not to eat mammals, birds, fish, decapods (lobsters, crabs, prawns), or cephalopod mollusks (e.g. octopus, squid); but who were okay with eating bivalve mollusks (clams, mussels, oysters) on the grounds that they did not have enough brain to experience pain.

I think those folks would be okay with eating jellyfish.

Rather than asking, "Is X vegan?" it might be more useful to ask, "What is person P trying to accomplish by 'being vegan'? Is eating X in conflict with that?"

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[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Jellyfish belong to Cnidaria, which is a phylum under kingdom Animalia

TLDR: Jellyfish are biologicly animals

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[–] reality_boy@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Vegan is a very wide array of things ranging to not eating red meat all the way down to not doing anything that could hurt a plant (only scavengering fallen fruit).

https://theminimalistvegan.com/types-of-vegans-and-vegetarians/

[–] DrummyB@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is not at all what Veganism is.

Veganism is LITERALLY an ethical stance regarding exploiting/harming/killing non-human animals.

Finding a random blog online that states otherwise means nothing. Anyone who ate a salad last Tuesday these days thinks they can simply decide what Veganism is.

THIS is the actual definition of Veganism, directly from the people who coined the term:

“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

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[–] activator90@lemmynsfw.com 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think animals care about weird human ideologies like veganism

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

They have no brain but aren't they like almost entirely nervous system? That's all you need to feel pain; the brain just makes it more complicated than "ouch, move away from that."

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[–] GayPunkRock@the.coolest.zone 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

would u even get anything out of eating it tho?

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