this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Men's Liberation

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[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Am I only the only one who thinks comes off like "men arent like women, and therefore broken"?

Not having to spend an hour discussing my feelings is actually one of the things I like about my friendships. I don't want long deep hugs, they make me uncomfortable. And I definitely don't want someone opening up to me about their life struggles. That's not the kind of friendship I like or want.

I guess that makes me broken!

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean it does because those things only make you uncomfortable because you've been conditioned your entire life to feel that way just because you're a man.

Those things are basic human companionship.

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

So not only am I somehow fundamentallly broken, I've also been duped by society and I'm too stupid to even realize it?

You couldn't be any more insulting if you tried.

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[–] pigup@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Really great article

[–] eochaid@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

As a married cis man moving towards his 40s, I can only confirm from my perspective that the male-to-male friendship experience seems broken.

First of all, in college I learned about the performative nature of gender and that gave me the tools I needed to push back against social pressure. I wear what's comfortable, I try to be considate towards others, I talk about emotions, and I do what sounds fun without a care about whether it makes me "feminine" or "gay". I feel that pushing against gender performance expectations has made me a better and fulfilled person.

But male-male friendships are still really hard, and I don't get it. I've lost all of mine, for various reasons. Some of us got busy with careers, families, or whatever other reason. I've reached out now, multiple times, over the last few years, to old male friends and coworkers that I worked with for 5+ years.

The conversation starts with a list of accomplishments. I congratulate them, so glad they're doing well. We're both pretty happy in careers too.

I ask how they're doing, what do they do for fun, you still with that same girl? Fine. Same old. Uh huh.

I suggest that maybe we should do something sometime. Play disc golf. Play some games. Hang out. Meet somewhere. Bring your kids if you want, I'd love to meet them.....and at this point they get distant and eventually ghost me.

After a few instances of this, I started to wonder if there's something wrong with me. Maybe they didn't like me. Maybe I said something wrong. But there was one other instance. A woman I worked with for like 9 months. I called her once to ask for a job reference. And we ended up talking for an hour about our lives, our SOs, life goals etc. Before I could ask, she ended up suggesting that hang out and bring our SOs.

The only male friends I have right now are the male SOs of female friends or my wife's girl friends.

Some of the most fulfilling friend groups we've had since were groups with LGBT and NB folks. And I think that's because, even though gender performance is absolutely an important thing in these groups, there's less pressure for us, a cis couple, to "perform" in a certain way. Our conversations are more real and liberated. It's less anxious and competitive. But at the same time, those friendships eventually end because I don't they can really connect with us - like, we're still outsiders and so there's a bit of a block. I understand, but it sucks.

Because we try to connect with cis men, or even couples, in our area, we either get standoffishness or competitions. Like, we're getting evaluated for our performance of gender / society / life expectations. My wife and I have careers, no kids, and we're fine, but we're also trying to explore who we are outside that. And new cis friendships at our age seems to be less about connecting and doing fun things and more about bragging about accomplishments or complaining about the lack of them over coffee.

And its so hard to find any cis men that are just fucking chill and maybe tired of all the anxiety and social pressure around masculinity and just willing to be a person rather than a "man".

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[–] Deca@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder if this is one of the reasons why MTF vastly outnumber FTM transitions

[–] spaduf@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Actually they don't. Source

There's a fascinating history for why there may have been significant differences in reported numbers but they seem to have far more to do with the state of the medical establishment and their willingness to marginalize certain people than anything else.

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